Charles Foster is an English writer, a traveler, a veterinarian, a taxidermist, a barrister, and a philosopher. Like my previous guest Steven Kotler, he believes in getting deep into subjects in a very immersive and experiential way. In his earlier book called Being a Beast, Charles shares his experiences of trying to live as an otter, a badger, a stagg, a fox and other animals and birds, all in order to better understand what being a wild animal is really like. His latest book is called Being a Human, where he and his 13-year-old son live in the wilderness as Paleolithic hunter gatherers to really understand what it means to be human.
Charles rolls up his sleeves and puts himself into the shoes of our ancestors going back many thousands of years. And when asked why he bothers to drag himself and his children off into caves, he answers as follows: because I don't trust books, and you get a wholly different kind of knowledge by doing and feeling things. So this is a man trying to be a better human, a better father, a better son, a better husband, a man who dives deep into a subject in order to enhance his understanding of arguably the most important topic that faces us all. He's a traveler through time and space. Being a Human is a travel book, essentially, about traveling across generations, and Charles’s curiosity is infectious.
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Kevin Kelly first appeared on this show back in 2016 to talk about his bestselling book, “The Inevitable”, which was a review of the key tech trends that were shaping our lives. Today, almost seven years later, I’ve been struck by how prescient a number of his predictions turned out to be back then, in particular around artificial intelligence, which we talk about in this episode.
Kevin’s latest book is called Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I'd Known Earlier. This is a curated selection of aphorisms, which guide how Kevin lives his life, and which he was encouraged by his family to put together several years ago. It's a mixture of very practical, as well as quite counterintuitive, but nevertheless fascinating advice for parents, for children, and for grandparents. There are echoes of Charlie Munger and Warren Buffett, in emphasizing the importance of thinking long term, of deferred gratification, or of compounding, but there are also different ways of looking at the world, drawing from the work from James P. Carse and his “Finite and Infinite Games,” that guide Kevin and how he approaches things.
Kevin has done a huge amount of travel and he shares with us how he thinks about traveling, and why he sees traveling as such an important activity for the youth to pursue. Towards the end, we talked about what his current projects and his future projects are, and he's embarking on a 100-year project, being enormously optimistic and positive about the future.
What We Cover:
19:49 - The idea of finite and infinite games and the parts of our society and systems that can be perceived as infinite games
23:24 - The paradox of generosity and why it works even if it seems counterintuitive in today’s world
30:19 - The value of rites of passage for the youth and how to recreate them in the modern Western society
34:03 - Where we are going next with the advancement of artificial intelligence
45:43 - Kevin’s 100-year project and why he is optimistic about the future
Key Learnings and Takeaways:
The foundational paradox of our human societal collective existence is that the more you give, the more you get, that you cannot deplete your generosity and kindness.
The thrilling adventure that the society is headed into right now is trying to elevate the AI's so that they're better than humans, even though we currently don't have a consensus on what ethics and morality mean that we could program into AI.
Links and Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I’d Known Earlier by Kevin Kelly
The Inevitable and other books by Kevin Kelly https://kk.org/books
Connect with Kevin Kelly on social media @Kevin2Kelly
Finite and Infinite Games by James P. Carse
Kevin Kelly: The Formula for the Next 10,000 Startups, Failing Forward and Becoming a Teaching Organization on OutsideVoices
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In this short episode, I’m sharing an excerpt from my recent interview with Kevin Kelly. He's got a new book coming out in May 2023, called Excellent Advice for Living: Wisdom I Wish I'd Known Earlier. We’re going to release the full interview when the book is out, but in the meantime, it’s worth sharing with you some of Kevin’s insights into the topic of AI, which is one of the areas in which he is genuinely a world leader.
Unless you've been living in a cave or under a rock, you're likely very interested in how AI technology is going to shape out - whether it is just one more iteration of the Silicon Valley hype machine, or whether this is something far more fundamental, something that threatens a number of our global institutions relating to democracy, to the economy, and to what it means to be human.
Be sure to also check out my previous interview with Kevin Kelly, linked below in the show notes, as well as my recommendations of two other shows where you can learn more about AI.
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I’m very excited to welcome back Steven Kotler, who’s been a guest on this podcast a few times before, talking about some of his books such as Bold, The Rise of Superman, and The Art of Impossible. He has written 12 books in the last 12 years, and his work has been very helpful for me not only in the corporate world, but also more broadly in life.
Steven’s latest book is called Gnar Country: Growing Old, Staying Rad. Gnar, which is short for gnarly, refers not only to a very hostile environment in which he learned new action and adventure sports skills at the ripe age of 55, but also about the environment which at 55 you're operating in - the reality of getting old and some of the challenges associated with aging. We've talked about action sports, peak performance, longevity and a number of other topics, where Steven turned on its head some of the conventional wisdom around the psychological and physiological decline that accompanies old age, and offered an extremely optimistic view of how we can turn this around to our benefit.
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